A Conversation About Alawites Involving Alawites

Here's a link to a Christian webpage on the Alawite sect of Shia Islam.

http://www.30-days.net/muslims/muslims-in/mid-near-east/syria-alawites/

Though it's a Christian site dedicated to disseminating information that could help in Christian missionary efforts, this page has attracted Sunnis and Alawites who want to debate on whether Alawism is actually a Muslim denomination.

Two things to note:
(1) One non-Alawite Muslim here claimed that Alawites "were patronized by French colonialists just like the Qadiyanis were patronized by Britsh in India."
(2) All Alawites here claim to be just as Muslim as the guy next door, and deny any and all heresy they are alleged to flirt with. One thing none of them mention is that many of their teachings are secret. Maybe they don't know that. Maybe the majority of them honestly believe that they really are just a moderate sect of Shi'ites.

Probably the most you'll learn online about the heterodoxies of Alawites is at these two Sunni fundamentalist websites, here and here, and this evangelical Christian website.

You should be mindful of 3 things when you study a small, mysterious denomination like Alawite Shi'ism:
(1) Hostile sources could be flat-out lying about the denomination, or sincerely believing and propagating lies about the denomination.
(2) Sources who belong to the minority denomination could be overstating their commonality with the mainstream, and understating their differences with it, for practical and political reasons.
(3) The denomination actually could change over time. This can get really interesting when, as is alleged about Alawites, many of the group's beliefs and practices are secret.

The two biggest Alawite Facebook pages are I'm Alawite, with 1,858 likes, and Muslim-Alawite, with 985 likes. Muslim-Alawite is obviously very pro-Assad; I can't tell with the bigger group I'm Alawite, mostly because there aren't any Assad posters and pretty much all the posts are in Arabic. Below is a picture at I'm Alawite, which I found pretty interesting.

The American Religion

The following is a comment thread that formed on a post by the woman here known as Post-Bush Neocon's Mom. The post was a pic of four white schoolchildren with their hands over their hearts, facing a flag which was being held by a fifth white schoolchild. The bottom of the pic had a caption which read:

"We no longer do this for... fear... of offending someone !!! Let's see how many Americans re-post this ." (all sic)

The first comment posted was mine.

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Me: "From its inception, in 1892, the Pledge has been a slavish ritual of devotion to the state, wholly inappropriate for a free people. It was written by Francis Bellamy, a Christian Socialist pushed out of his post as a Baptist minister for delivering pulpit-pounding sermons on such topics as 'Jesus the Socialist.' Bellamy was devoted to the ideas of his more-famous cousin Edward Bellamy, author of the 1888 utopian novel Looking Backward. Looking Backward describes the future United States as a regimented worker's paradise where everyone has equal incomes, and men are drafted into the country's 'industrial army' at the age of 21, serving in the jobs assigned them by the state. Bellamy's novel was extremely popular, selling more copies than any other 19th century American novel except Uncle Tom's Cabin. Bellamy's book inspired a movement of 'Nationalist Clubs,' whose members campaigned for a government takeover of the economy. A few years before he wrote the Pledge of Allegiance, Francis Bellamy became a founding member of Boston's first Nationalist Club...

"Why do so many conservatives who, by and large, exalt the individual and the family above the state, endorse this ceremony of subordination to the government? Why do Christian conservatives say it's important for schoolchildren to bow before a symbol of secular power? Indeed, why should conservatives support the Pledge at all, with or without 'under God'?"

http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/whats-conservative-about-pledge-allegiance.

DS: Prior to going back to work I would walk the path of the local park a couple of times each morning. The park is located adjacent to a middle school. Much to my surprise I heard the Pledge Of the Allegiance over the loud speaker...under God is still a part of it. The pledge is still being said.

Post-Bush Neocon's Mom: Isaiah Sage I'm not ignoring your post. Actually, I needed to do a little research to see if what you've posted is 100% accurate. And while it is, it doesn't address the "spirit" in which this pledge was composed. Now I cannot expect either of us to go back into time and into the minds of the people living during this age; but it is safe to say that "war" to protect the freedoms the country offered (more than any other) was ongoing.

I know for me when the pledge was taught and introduced to us as children (1963 - when I entered school); it was from the "spirit" of pledging to uphold, fight and protect freedoms granted us by God in the good ol' United States of America.

If anything during my time (1960's) of entering school; slavery was a hot topic. The pledge, the constitution and the Bible was a weapon against the inequality of man; black and white. When I looked around my class room ALL races were reciting the same pledge, praying or having a "moment of silence" to their own God, in thankfulness for this great country.

So with all of your research and accuracy, what you have no window into is the hearts or attitude of those who recite this pledge. You have only the biography of the author.

And may I remind you of Balaam, even a donkey was used to bend the Will of God.

Me: I disagree. The biographical details of the Bellamy cousins, and the language of the pledge, are evidence of "the spirit" in which Francis wrote the pledge. And that spirit is one of complete subservience to the nation state.

Post-Bush Neocon's Mom: Yes, Isaiah Sage I agree with you to a point; but you still do not know if his heart changed coming to this country. When you get to be my age; you look back and you see that all is not what it seemed. Hence, my reference to Balaam and his donkey. :-)
[Editor's Note: Both Francis Bellamy and Edward Bellamy were born in the U.S., but I let go her mistake about Francis immigrating.]

Post-Bush Neocon's Mom: P.S., what I am saying is Mr. Bellamy is the donkey.

Michael KS: http://oswego.patch.com/blog_posts/why-i-love-the-pledge-of-allegiance

[Michael KS's comment included only the above url. The meat of the blog post is:

"...The more important thing to worry about is how does one person come to power who can remove the rights and wishes of the larger community? Some might say, it's just the Pledge....not a big deal. What difference does it make if you stand and honor a flag with a few simple words? Well, pose that question to the thousands of individuals, parents, spouses, loved ones and friends of troops who have gone to fight to defend that very symbol and what it stands for? Ask that question of a Gold Star parent whose child died to uphold that red, white and blue symbol of freedom and democracy around the world? Ask a veteran who put his life on hold while he went to serve his country. Ask a child who misses their parent because they're serving in some distant land. And, by all means, go and ask that of a hero who is missing an arm, a leg, their sight, or their sanity for that "not so important" symbol!

"And so, the next time you think that saying the Pledge of Allegiance means nothing, try to remember the price that has been paid for that flag....over and over again. Freedom isn't locked in a box, or a stagnant thing, but instead is a living, breathing, evolving entity that is the heartbeat of this beautiful country. Remember that for many of us we've never had to pay anything. It's been given to us as a gift by those who have sacrificed so much, and the very least we can do to say I'm proud and grateful for that gift is to stand, put our hand over our heart and say the Pledge of Allegiance. I always have...and by God, I always will. No one person will ever take that right from me. Rights can only be stolen by those who allow it...."]

Post-Bush Neocon's Mom: Profound article. In the same Spirit of that which I wrote. :-)

Me: That blog post is off point. I do not say that the pledge means nothing. It means something very big. It means "We perform this ritual in which we apotheosize a group of people who hold a monopoly of power over others."

Michael KS: I don't know what "apotheosize" means.

Me: http://www.google.com/search?q=apotheosize&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-us%3AIE-Address&ie&oe&rlz=1I7ADFA_en#hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address&rlz=1I7ADFA_en&q=apotheosize&tbs=dfn:1&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=0igoUK6IC7DpiwKi3YG4CQ&ved=0CFEQkQ4&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=2856fc618e8e7f94&biw=1000&bih=639.
Post-Bush Neocon's Mom: And how do you define Divinity, Isaiah Sage?

Me: A group of people who kills other people non-discriminately, and pretends to do so justly, pretends to have divinity or the stamp of it, regardless of what words they use.

Post-Bush Neocon's Mom: So you are saying the Flag represents indiscriminate killing collectively justified through the misunderstanding that the pledge of allegiance is divine?

Me: What I am saying is that the pledge and the flag are aspects of a religion in which people prostrate themselves to the nation state, to the point that they are encouraged to willingly kill and die for "the country", where they uncritically embrace the mythic narrative of their nation state and describe it as if the history of their nation state is the history of Justice being made manifest among men, where they sing hymns ("Mine eyes have seen the glory..."), hear sermons ("There is nothing to fear but fear itself..."), read scripture ("Four score and seven years ago..."), and where they judge others by how enthusiastically they embrace the group narrative, get behind the group leaders or the leaders of their specific faction, and identify their leaders with the mythos of the group narrative.

Julie Altman: Sorry Isaiah, I think you're full of it. (respectfully).

Post-Bush Neocon's Mom: What I love about your thesis is the idea that you are attempting to find truth. Unfortunately, Isaiah, truth is relative based on the authority therein it lies. I find in your assessment a tremendous amount of shallow conclusions. While on the surface this appears to have been well thought out and articulate, in fact it lacks the benefit of the doubt or personal knowledge of the individuals motives that were involved.

Unfortunately, you have a book and I have an experience. The difference between us comes from the fact that I lived in an era where acts of patriotism were commonplace, saying the pledge was purehearted and people were and many still are ready to die for the country this flag represents.

Honestly, I find it most surprising that your assessment is most judgmental with no grace or room for error. I guess there are some things we learned where it is easier to switch gears and call it evolution.